This interview consists of four parts:
Part 1: Fiona Ma’s present role as California treasurer and her future political career goals.
Part 2: Past accomplishments.
Part 3: National political climate.
Part 4: Personal stories.
To watch it as a 1 hr 20 min video
To listen to it as a 1 hr 20 min podcast
Subheadings are added to the following transcript for reaching convenience.
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Joanne Tan 0:00
Welcome to 10 Plus Podcast, video, and blog channels. I’m Joanne Tan, host and producer of the series “Interviews of Notables and Influencers”. Today, we’re honored to have Fiona Ma, the California State Treasurer since January 2019. She’s running for lieutenant governor of California in the 2026 election. Fiona is a member of the Democratic Party. Prior to being elected as the state treasurer, she was a member of the California Board of Equalization from 2015 to 2019, and the San Francisco Board of Supervisors from 2002 to 2006.
Joanne Tan 0:40
This interview consists of four parts: (1) Fiona Ma’s present role as California treasurer and her future political career goals. (2) Past accomplishments. (3) National political climate. (4) Personal stories. Thank you, Fiona, for this privilege. I am so happy to have you here.
Fiona Ma 1:03
Thank you. Thank you, Joanne.
Joanne Tan 1:05
Let’s dive into Part One: Present position as California treasurer, running for lieutenant governor and beyond. In March, 2019 you announced you would run for governor in the 2026 California election. In March 2023 you announced that you would run for lieutenant governor instead. Tell us why you changed your mind.
Fiona Ma 1:31
Well. Number one, when there is a governor’s race and it is an open seat, a lot of candidates tend to run in that election. Number two, it is getting very, very expensive to run in certain races. I estimate you need about $30 – $100 million to run for governor next year. And three, given the climate and what is happening and the field is not certain at this moment, I decided to start earlier, about two and a half years ago, and just plant my flag and run for lieutenant governor. That’ll be my fifth elected position. I started on the San Francisco Board of Supervisors in 2002 then served in the State Assembly for six years, State Board of Equalization for four years, and now treasure for seven years. So I’m just kind of step by step, by step, by step, because I really never even thought I would be in elected office. It is such an honor as the oldest child of immigrant parents coming to this country to find my dream and my calling and to be able to continue to serve is… been a privilege.
Joanne Tan 2:49
What are the responsibilities of a lieutenant governor that are different from a governor’s?
Fiona Ma 2:56
The governor essentially manages everything in the state. The governor has most of the boards, commissions and authorities under the governor’s purview. The governor issues the budget, so decides where the money is going to be allocated, and then it’ll be adjusted after the legislature and given the different market conditions, then the governor updates his budget from January through May, and then they pass a balanced budget in June.
Fiona Ma 3:31
The lieutenant governor is, is kind of Number Two in charge, kind of like the vice president, must be willing and able to serve in case the governor is unable or out of the state or out of the country, and then the lieutenant governor also sits on five boards, UC Board of Regents, California State University Trustee, Community College Board, as well as the Coastal Commission and the state lands. The Lieutenant Governor is also supposed to oversee the economic development initiatives in the state, and I look forward to continuing to do that. As state treasurer, I take in all the money, I invest the money, I issue bonds and loans. And so economic development has been a key initiative, even here at the treasurer’s office. And then the last one is the governor has delegated a lot of the international affairs, both inbound and outbound, to this lieutenant governor, Eleni Kounalakis, and hopefully I will be able to continue, if I get elected, continue to do more international relations, since California is the fifth largest economy in the world, so the US, China, Japan, Germany, and California, if we were our own nation. So we act like a nation state, and we really do have relations, global relations, with so many of the countries all over the world, and hopefully I will be able to continue in that international relations role.
Joanne Tan 5:20
Do you intend to run for California Governor later? If you win the election in 2026?
Fiona Ma 5:27
We’ll have to see what happens. You know, you just never know what opportunities come up. For me, I really like elected office. I like to run for office, and I like to represent and be directly accountable to the people, so we will see what happens in four or eight years.
Joanne Tan 5:50
Do you endorse any particular candidate in the crowded 2026 gubernatorial election?
Fiona Ma 5:58
I have not endorsed anyone. I know all of the candidates, pretty much, who are running, it’s… the leading candidates who are running. March 2026, is the filing deadline, so more candidates could potentially jump in. However, I if I get elected, I am committed to work with any governor who gets elected by the people.
Joanne Tan 6:23
Who else is in the race competing with you for lieutenant governor? What differentiates your candidacy from your competitors?
Fiona Ma 6:32
Um, there’s four declared candidates, or at least four who are actively raising money and you know, in the news, I think what differentiates myself is that I am the only statewide elected candidate, you know, being elected not only Board of Equalization, which was a quarter of the State, 10 million people, and now representing 40 million people, I’m the only candidate at the state level. I’ve also raised the most money. I’ve got about $4.3 million cash on hand in my account, and based on my qualifications and my experience and proven leadership, I am just running to… on my own agenda, my own platform, and to appeal to the people of the state of California.
Joanne Tan 7:33
What issues are you running on? Where do you stand in terms of the most pressing issues for Californians?
Fiona Ma 7:41
So you know, I had been a leader in the housing space. I am a real estate tax accountant by training, and right now I oversee the tax credits and the bonds that goes to subsidize affordable housing for extremely low and very low individuals. We have been building new buildings, new units, which are great because these rents are restricted for 55 years, and so these buildings are really meant to to stay around, and the newer we can build them, the longer that they will be in better condition.
Fiona Ma 8:20
I’ve been also working on student housing. We built our first student housing site at Santa Rosa Community College, 364 beds. Very, very successful, and we were going to build more student and faculty housing on the UC, CSU, and Community College Board properties. However, given the budget right now, that project is on hold.
Fiona Ma 8:47
We also need more workforce housing. So I have been out talking to investors and others that this is really the great need, workforce middle income housing for teachers and nurses and, you know, firefighters, government workers, there is not a lot of subsidy for that type of housing. And unless we increase the supply, the demand is greater right now, and that’s why the prices are so inflated, not only for new home buyers, but also people who want to rent. So housing is definitely a priority.
Fiona Ma 9:28
Number two, economic development, our general fund is highly dependent on personal income tax, corporation tax, and sales taxes, so we need to make sure that we keep, and retain, and grow those high quality jobs, because they go to pay a majority of our taxes. And when people are doing well, they’re spending money buying cars, and taking trips, and going out to eat, and staying in hotels, and that all, um, is an income generator.
Fiona Ma 10:02
And then agriculture. I started the San Francisco Farm Bureau last year because I don’t want to depend on other countries for our food. As human beings, we need three things: We need air, we need water, and we need food. And food is the one that I feel we can control the most as human beings. And so starting the San Francisco Farm Bureau really is a an initiative to build awareness, educate our San Franciscans, get more support for our farmers and ranchers and really try to keep our food here, our food source here in California. We grow 400 different products, so we supply other states as well as other nations. So import export is super important, you know, for our continuing trade relations with other nations, so food is definitely one of my priorities.
Fiona Ma 11:07
And then public safety. I think we all want to feel safe in our homes, in our businesses, when we’re out on the street. And we saw few years ago during the pandemic, how there was a lot of Asian hate, and people were targeting us, our community, our elders, and so public safety is definitely top of mind for so many people.
Fiona Ma 11:31
And then education. I have three degrees. I have a bachelor’s in accounting, a master’s in taxation and an MBA, and I’ve been a certified public accountant, still am since 1992. And so being a member of the UC, CSU, and community college boards is going to be… I’m really looking forward to that, because we need to get back to a place where anyone who comes to this country, comes to this state, wants to better themselves by education, which is the great leveler, as my dad is always talking about, should be able to afford to go, should be able to afford to live in an apartment on campus, off campus, not have to live in their cars. And so lots of initiatives that I would like to propose with our UC, CSU, and community college boards.
Joanne Tan 12:32
Yeah, I can’t agree with you more about the importance of agriculture and farming sector of California, because California feeds not only us but the nation, but the drought issue: Okay, There are times when we don’t think about it as hard, when we are going through many years of drought, and then, you know, some atmospheric rivers, and we are fine. And for my last interview with Tani Cantil-Sakauye, who is the president of the California Public Policy Institute, she said, you know, the drought issue is seriously threatening the farming industry. Some of land has been furloughed. If you are the governor, or if you win the lieutenant governor, what would you do to solve that drought issue in the long term?
Fiona Ma 13:27
Well, like you said, Joanne, people tend to think about the issues as they are happening, right? We really haven’t had a major earthquake, knock on wood here in California. And when we do have an earthquake, then people tend to buy earthquake insurance, right, and then everybody is worried about the next one and being able to make retrofits to their homes and their buildings, right, for to protect their property, for example. Fires, the same thing. We’ve had many, many years of devastating wildfires. Since 2017 we have been doing more. We have been putting more money for emergency services, for our first responders. Of utility companies have been hardening, you know, their, their wires, putting them underground now, like other countries have. And when it comes to the drought, we need to do a better job. We need to do a better job of conserving and also storing, and that has been an issue about water storage. We have been waiting to build this site’s reservoir up here in northern California for decades, it is an off storage facility. So when the dam gets too high and there’s too much rain and water, then the water would be able to be stored at this reservoir, and we still haven’t been able to build it. So. Uh, underground storage. There’s certain places in the state that has a good underground storage system. We need more of that because, like, we know, we cannot plan when it’s going to rain, when there’s going to be, you know, snow, and for those rainy days, we have to be planning, and this is something that should be a priority for the state.
Joanne Tan 15:25
Absolutely! What’s your vision for the state of California?
Fiona Ma 15:30
Well, we speak 200 languages here in California. We embrace our equity and diversity, equity and inclusion. Those are three words that some states don’t like, but we live it. Those are our values. I always say, if anybody wants to to reach their American dream, they should come to California, because that’s where the most opportunities are. Not only can you come to a certain community, they speak your language, you know you’re comfortable with their food, there’s markets, there’s restaurants. I mean, it really is a United Nations here in California, and so that’s what I say. We are the Golden State. We’re the fifth largest economy. I’m hoping we’re going to move up to either fourth or third pretty soon, but that’s because of our entrepreneurial spirit, our can do attitude, our, you know, our, our attitude toward diversity and immigrants and hard work, right? Hard work is what wins the day in the end, and that’s where you can, you can come to California and feel like your rights are protected, that you can actually, you know, work hard and achieve here.
Joanne Tan 17:00
What do you intend to accomplish in the next 10 to 15 years as a public figure? Where do you see California in the next 10 to 15 years?
Fiona Ma 17:11
Yeah. I mean, I you know, my stance is always to be positive, to be inclusive, especially now, my message is we need to come together. We need to forget about our grudges. We need to forget about, put aside our differences. We need to stop complaining and start working together. You know, we will be stronger if we work together, support each other, and think about California, United States. You know our history, right? We are the United States. That means we’re supposed to be united, not divided. And in California, we can get back to that place where people feel proud, they feel safe, they feel supported, and they will continue to want to stay and grow and thrive here in California. So that’s kind of my message is, you know, let’s stay positive. Let’s support each other more. Let’s preach more peace, and understanding, and compromise, and communication, and love.
Joanne Tan 18:32
What specific goals or landmarks do you want California to reach in the next five to 10 years?
Fiona Ma 18:40
I think with California, you know, we’ve been doing pretty good in terms of our leadership role. We had a very successful APEC conference last year where 23, I think 23 of the countries sent their top people to California. That was after the pandemic. So it was, it was a really good sign. The Olympics are coming, the World Cup, the Super Bowl again. I mean, we have so many things happening here in California where we want the nation to come to California. We want more visitors.
Fiona Ma 19:23
Hollywood. We lost a lot of the filming. Governor Gavin Newsom has committed to doubling our film tax credits to try to bring more filming back to Hollywood, because that’s what we’re kind of known for in California. We’re known for Hollywood, the Muse the movies. And when people make money here, they pay taxes here. So when filming and other types of labor intensive businesses that do tend to make money when they leave the state, we lose a lot of the tax revenues. So just trying to bring more of our traditional industries back to California. Why people you know would always come to California when they came to visit, we need to make sure our attractions are being promoted more.
Fiona Ma 20:14
And also make sure that Silicon Valley continues to be the creative hub, because it is driving a lot of jobs and revenues and interests internationally. I was just at a Swiss Consul General event closing of an AI series here in San Francisco, and they’re purposely here because of Silicon Valley. Korea, Korea has, I think, the third largest pension fund in the world, and they recently opened up an office in San Francisco because of Silicon Valley. The Italians have a robust tech incubator right in downtown San Francisco, again, to capture that spirit of entrepreneurship and Silicon Valley, and people want to be that unicorn, right? But you can’t be a unicorn. You know, by yourself. Unicorns develop based on people, talent, momentum, and that shared goal.
Joanne Tan 21:19
You have been the California treasurer for six years. What were your biggest challenges and accomplishments as a treasurer? Please list in the order of importance.
Fiona Ma 21:32
I think the biggest challenge was COVID. All of a sudden, March 4 of 2020. March 4 is my birthday, so I remember that day, Governor Newsom called for the stay at home orders for COVID, and so all of a sudden, everybody was supposed to stay home. But I am the bank, over $3 trillion comes into my office. I invest the state’s idol funds, every single day, I issue all the bonds for the California, State of California, the UC and CSU. And so I cannot close, I cannot put all of our transactions on laptops, due to, you know, cyber security. So I had to come in. I, my office, we had 100 people come in every day. I came in every day because, as the leader, I did not want my people to say, well, if the boss doesn’t come in because she’s scared of COVID or why doesn’t, you know, she, why isn’t she concerned about our health if we have to come in? I came in every day, and my folks did not miss a beat. We were able to get through it, even with all of the technology changes, we never missed an application deadline. We never missed regulation deadlines. And so I’m very, very proud of my office and the dedicated team members. I only have 500 employees. It’s a very small agency. It hasn’t changed much in the last 50 years. We still have about 500 employees. So everybody is working hard and is very dedicated here in California.
Fiona Ma 23:18
Secondly, I’m very proud of all the housing that we have built, as we all know, the cost of living is going up. And housing, you know, used to be what 20% of your budget, and now sometimes, for some housing is, is costing more and more, which is impacting the ability for them to pay for other things like education and health care, you know, savings, etc.
Fiona Ma 23:48
And then talk about savings. I oversee four savings programs my parents, when I was born, my brother and my sister, they started saving money for me and my siblings, and when I went to college, I did not have student loan debt, and I was able to use the extra money for higher education, for a Master’s, to start a business or to buy a home. And I decided to put my extra money to buy a home, which is the way we build equity here in America, is property and real estate. So building more housing has been, you know, a big accomplishment. All of my savings programs, more and more people have been saving more. So I feel a little bit better that people don’t have to, you know, have high, high student loan debt, or even high credit card debt, because the interest rates are just so much greater.
Fiona Ma 24:44
And then all of the other programs I fund and finance, hospitals, schools, public transportation, green energy, advanced manufacturing, garbage and recycling, small businesses and all of those programs have been helping so many millions of Californians get back on their feet, expand their businesses, even sometimes stay open: We gave out 17 distressed hospital loans last year to those hospitals that were having financial difficulties, and all of them are still open. And have… you know, are on a, a plan to re, you know re-figure out their budgets.
Fiona Ma 25:29
But healthcare is an area that is vulnerable for us moving forward as we live longer, as we all have access to the internet, where we’re all googling our own, you know, solutions to whatever ailments we have, the healthcare industry has not really been able to keep up, and the reimbursements from Medicare, Medical, etc, have not kept up, And so it’s been harder and harder to recruit more doctors and nurses, especially in California, because then they’re going to have to figure out where they’re going to live, and if housing costs are too high, they may not choose to come to our state. So it’s just lot of issues, you know, because we have 40 million people, and they’re very diverse, and we have lots of issues and lots of programs and services, and we’re trying to keep everybody healthy and safe and living longer, and that requires a lot of creative thinking.
Fiona Ma 26:31
And, you know, trying to figure out our budget, you know, what is the best bang for our buck. How are we going to use technology to be able to make us more efficient, for example, and how we’re going to reform some of the traditional models that just aren’t working. I’ll give you one example. The Walgreens in my neighborhood closed last year, and now the CVS in my neighborhood is also closing. So things are changing. Where people don’t go to a store to buy things they want to order everything off online, even on medication now, you have to order through companies because they’re trying to save money and sending it to the house. I mean, just, things are just definitely changing, especially after COVID and technology.
Joanne Tan 27:23
You were involved in the legislation for the California High Speed Rail. After three decades, where are the bullet trains?
Fiona Ma 27:32
Uh, well, they’re being built. You know, Prop 1A passed at the height of the Great Recession in November 2008 with close to 53% of the vote. And it was mostly the young people, because I went on different college campuses along the high speed rail route, and they were all saying: when are we going to get this built? I’d like to go to LA or San Francisco for the weekend. So the Central Valley is where we have started. The first segment from Merced to Bakersfield. And if you go out there lots of infrastructure, lots of jobs happening. I am also supporting a new private train called Bright Line West. It will go from Rancho Cucamonga to Las Vegas in two and a half hours, all electric train, and it will be run privately. So we have a public project in our California High Speed Rail, and then we’ll have a private Bright Line train, and my hope is that they will all combine so that it will be one seamless high speed rail network. And I’m working, you know, with both agencies to try to make sure they align their tracks and their systems and their trains, so that eventually we can have a real robust high speed rail system, similar to the ones around the world, which you know are the envy when you go to Japan, or Italy, or England, or Germany, or China. I mean, the train system is just amazing. And as we get older, like I know I am not a good driver. So, you know, depending on trains, where you can get on, you can relax, you can plug in, you don’t have to think about driving. That is definitely the future around the globe, but not here in the United States, yet.
Joanne Tan 29:38
I know. Sooner the better.
Fiona Ma 29:40
Yes.
Joanne Tan 29:41
we’re heading into Part Two: Past accomplishments. Your first public elected position was a member of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors from 2002 to 2006. How did that role prepare you for your subsequent six years stint at the State Assembly?
Fiona Ma 29:59
Yeah, so, yes, it took me about eight years to put my name in the hat to run for the San Francisco Board of Supervisors. I ran in the Sunset District, which was considered the “Chinese Seat” at the time. We have 11 members on our board of supervisors, and we are the only city and county in the state, San Francisco’s only city and county: 11 members. So when I got elected, I was the only Asian member and only the second woman. So I, Sophie Maxwell and I, we got beat up a lot because we weren’t prepared to fight every single day. So I spent most of my four years outside of City Hall, working with our neighbors, our my constituents, trying to do neighborhood cleanups, and move stop signs, and put in garbage cans, and I moved a bus stop, for example, put more handicap parking, I mean, all sorts of things that you know your constituents depend on. And did a lot of, a lot of stakeholder engagement.
Fiona Ma 31:16
And that was my first time I tried to get rid of the payroll tax, because back then, San Francisco would assess companies based on the number of employees. So that’s why all the tech and biotech companies were located in Berkeley, in Emeryville, in Oakland, in South San Francisco, just outside of San Francisco. Because of this payroll tax, we were the only ones that were assessing this payroll tax. So I wanted to get rid of it. But the only way to get rid of a tax is to replace it with some other funding source. So for 18 months, I convened a group of about 80 people every, every couple weeks we would get together, we would hear potential ideas, and at the end, we voted to, to see what the top you know, ideas are. We’re going to get rid of the payroll tax, what are the other options? And those went on the ballot. It did not pass, unfortunately, and so we continued to have that payroll tax until about 2010 when Mayor Ed Lee, who was our first Chinese mayor ever in San Francisco, he was the Mayor; David Chu was head of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors, and they were able to pass that, get rid of the payroll tax, and all of a sudden, all the tech companies, all the biotech companies, started to come to San Francisco. So there was a huge boon.
Fiona Ma 32:54
But that was the first time that I I understood consensus building. A lot of people don’t want to take the time to hear and convene. You know, many people in a room, right, they don’t have that patience, for example. But I think when you do government planning that way, the results are much better. They’re going to be longer lasting. There’s going to be less lawsuits, for example. And so that has really stuck with me, and that’s what I learned from San Francisco.
Fiona Ma 33:30
I also passed legislation that if any massage establishments wanted to open, they needed a conditional use permit, because when I first got elected, there were two houses that got busted for human trafficking. There were Korean women coming over, and I found that it was very easy. We shut down an establishment. They just take out a business permit, they open back up again, and the problem continues. So once I pass the conditional use permit where someone has to come before government officials and say, I’m Fiona, Ma, here’s my ID. This is my company. I’m the one responsible. I’m going to be held accountable. All of a sudden, all of the human trafficking stopped in in San Francisco. So that also showed me the power of, you know, passing laws to solve major problems that sometimes we can’t control, because human trafficking is like a billion, trillion dollar business around the world, but our little city was able to play a part, and hopefully, you know, stop human trafficking coming into San Francisco. But that means it’s like a balloon, you know, you squeeze one, it just goes to other places, and everybody has to be, you know, on board, we should be working together so that we can pass laws that will stop certain activities from coming to California, our state, our nation, you know, and hopefully it’ll reverberate around the world.
Joanne Tan 35:09
So as a member of the California State Assembly, from 2006 to 2012, what legislative bills are you most proud of during your tenure and least proud of?
Fiona Ma 35:23
Well, I think we’re start with most proud because we only have a certain amount of time. But I also learned in San Francisco we have a principle called precautionary principle. So when Wilma Chan, she was in the Assembly, she tried to pass a law that would ban phthalates and Bisphenol A from baby products. And as she was one of my mentors, and I was, you know, watching, you know, what she was doing and trying to accomplish. She was not able to get that bill passed in the Assembly, so I took her bill and was able to pass her two bills banning Bisphenol A and phthalates from baby products in San Francisco. And because we had a precautionary principle, it passed easily. Then when I got elected to the Assembly, I tried to also do the same thing at the state level, and found a lot of opposition, lots of lobbyists, lots of different companies, you know, that wanted to continue to import baby products that had these, these chemicals in it. I talk about, it’s like, it’s like, toxic lollipops, right? When children are teething, they are sucking on, you know, rubber duckies and books and all the soft teething, you know, teething products. But they were, they had this toxic chemical in it, and so these chemicals are actually leaching into these babies product bodies and then affecting the way they they grow. So I couldn’t tackle both of those chemicals, so I just picked the one I thought was, had better science behind it, and that was phthalates, making chemicals softer. The chemicals were used to make baby products softer. So that’s the bill that I worked on. And every time nobody thought I could get it through the committee.
Fiona Ma 37:35
So we have two houses, usually a bill has to go to three different committees, at least, and then it has to get to the governor’s desk. And every committee that I would get my bill out, they would just hire more lobbyists to try to kill the bill. I finally got it to Governor Schwarzenegger’s desk, and he did not want to sign the bill as well, because we have thousands of chemicals out there, and once you ban one chemical, then it opens up the door to so many chemicals that are there. And he did not want to sign it, so we got his wife, Maria Shriver to help us do a little pillow talk. We also got the governor’s doctor, baby doctor, to also weigh in. We got famous people like Spielberg to also call him, and he signed my bill and said he was not going to sign any other chemical bills and was going to establish a Green Chemistry Council to study all of the different chemicals. So when someone creates a study or a committee that’s just going to delay, right, delay the issue. So got it passed, and then Diane Feinstein at the federal level, she was able to put my bill into a federal bill, and now today, no baby products should have this toxic chemical in it. So that’s something I learned at the local level, much easier to pass, much more difficult to pass at the state level. But that was probably one of my biggest accomplishments, my biggest bill as a freshman, when I first got elected to the legislature. So no one really, you know, expected I could really do that.
Fiona Ma 39:19
Then I’ve had a number of other bills. One fun one, when couples, heterosexual couples, got married, the woman could go down to the clerk recorder after they got married and changed her name easily, but men could not change their name. And there was one couple where the man did not feel attached to his birth name and his surname, his family name, because he was estranged, and he really wanted to take on her name, and he was not able to do that easily. He had to go to court. He had to take out ads in the newspaper at the time and alert the public he was going to change his name, and it was just a very expensive and tedious process. So I passed my Name Change Bill that was AB 102, and now when couples in California, if they want to change their name, they can change it to a hyphenated name. They can make up a name that is a combination of the two of them. You can’t just change if your last name is Ma, you just can’t change it to Smith, right? But you can have a hyphenated name, or you can combine the names, and that has made it much easier for also LGBT couples, because a lot of them were adopting kids and they had to pick one name. And so if one parent went to the school and it wasn’t the same last name as the child, you know, it created issues also in healthcare situations, if someone is in the hospital, they don’t have the same name, then people question, Who is this person? So now it has made life a lot easier, not only for heterosexual couples, but also same sex couples. So that was a fun one.
Fiona Ma 41:14
And then my last two bills signed by Governor Jerry Brown allows women convicted of life without parole a second chance in having their cases heard if they were a victim of domestic violence. So many women who were convicted, you know, 30 years ago, we did not have the battered women syndrome as a defense, which means you can now explain to the court if you killed your husband or significant other, you know why? What was the reason? You know, it was self protection. This is what was going on. You were being threatened with a gun, with a knife, your child, whatever it is, but they were never allowed to tell that side of the story. It was, did you kill this person? Yes or no, if so, you’re going to prison, life without parole, meaning we throw away the key. You’re never going to see the light of day. So I was able to get the last two bills passed, and it has given an opportunity for these women who have never been able to go to the parole board, never able to go talk to a judge, that opportunity and over 100 women plus now are free and living the rest of their life outside of prison. Prison system is, is not kind, to women especially, and so just giving that opportunity for these women to be able to, you know, live the rest of their life in dignity, a little bit of dignity, freedom. Many of them have serious illnesses. They’ve got cancers, they’re, you know, disabled. Is just, you know, something I never thought, because it’s first in the nation bill. No other nation has ever passed this type of bill. And I think it shows, not only California’s values, the compassion. You know, for the governor, he said, If you get this bill to my desk, I will definitely sign it. So it gave me more, you know, more incentive to try to help these women. Because it could have been my grandmother, could have been my mother, it could have been your mother, right? So anyway,
Joanne Tan 43:43
Wonderful, wonderful. Tell us how you became the first Asian American woman to serve as California Assembly Speaker, pro tempore for two years. Is is pro tempore a substitute for the speaker, which is the second highest ranking office in the California Assembly?
Fiona Ma 44:03
Yes, so it is the number two position in the, in the legislature. I was appointed by the speaker at the time, Speaker John Perez, and again, kind of like the vice president or lieutenant governor, if anything happens to the speaker, the number two, the pro tem, must be able to step up and continue the operations for the house. But I also ran the floor. So if you came to a a floor session on a Monday or a Thursday, I would be the one at the front with the gavel, you know, managing the floor, hearing all the bills, etc. So it was, it was good, you know, I was very, very visible during those last two years.
Joanne Tan 44:51
Were you in private practice for three years, between 2012 and 2015, in between your state Assembly and Board of Equalization public positions?
Fiona Ma 45:01
Yeah, because of the census, every 10 years, my Senate seat, I thought I was going to run for the Senate, it was actually taken away. We used to have two assembly members and two senators from San Francisco, and after 2010 redistricting, we only had one senator. So I did not have a seat. I always say it’s like musical chairs. You hope you have a seat when the music stops. And I did not. So I did do some CPA work, some consulting work, for two years, my father was kind of happy. It’s like, okay, you’re going to, you know, come back and make money and go back and be a CPA. And I said, No, Dad, I’m going to run for the State Board of Equalization. And so he looked that up, and it’s a tax board. It mostly handles all the different taxes, except income taxes and also the appeals. And so my dad was a little bit happier with that position, and so I ended up running and winning that position, which I felt very comfortable, since I am a tax accountant, and then got elected the treasurer, treasurer. So I’m kind of got back into public service after two years. And I think two years is probably the maximum amount of time you can sit out and be able to get back in and run for office again. So I was very lucky that I had something to run for during my two year hiatus.
Joanne Tan 46:34
As a member of the California Board of Equalization from 2015 to 2019 and only the second CPA to be elected to the Board of Equalization, you were selected as chairperson in 2016. At BOE you ordered three external audits of the agency and cleaned up the agency. We are very proud of you. Tell us some of your challenges and other accomplishments.
Fiona Ma 47:02
Yeah, you know, as an accountant, as a CPA, right, it’s all about checks and balances. That’s how I’ve been trained. And there were not a lot of checks and balances at the agency. A lot of things that were happening there, the legislature and outsiders were not able to pinpoint what was happening because the agency back then just did not cooperate with the legislature. They just did not tell people or be transparent about what was happening. So when I got in there, after a year of seeing what was happening, I became chair, and I was able to call in three audits, and those audits clearly showed a lot of things that were not going right. Governor Jerry Brown took away the taxing authority, and he also formed another agency to hear the income tax appeal. So the Board of Equalization has gone back to its constitutional, original constitutional duties of overseeing the assessors and working with the assessment appeals board, essentially. So that was something I felt was necessary to do. You know, I do believe that government is paid by the taxpayers. We have a responsibility to be transparent, and to be accountable, and to provide that customer excellent customer service. And all of that was not happening at the Board of Equalization. So that’s what prompted me to call in those three audits.
Joanne Tan 48:43
Okay, now we are heading into Part Three: National political climate. Governor Gavin Newsom said a month ago that the Democratic brand is toxic (As a brand builder myself, I like his use of the word brand, by the way.) Do you agree with him?
Fiona Ma 49:04
I would say, you know, my attitude of the Democratic party is a party of the people, the majority of the people, and we represent diverse group of stakeholders, and we want to make everybody happy, which is, you know, not easy to do, and that’s the democratic brand. I would say, is that we are a party of many, many people, many diverse opinions, and we do try to please as many people as we can. So I think it is the party I belong to, because I see leaders that look like me. I see that there’s opportunities if I work hard, that I can move up the chain, for example. And as the daughter of immigrant parents, that is important to me, those opportunities. And so that’s what the Democratic Party offers me. So, that, I would say, is our brand, is: we are the party of the majority of the people, especially here in California.
Joanne Tan 50:26
What are the impacts on the California economy from the Trump Administration’s tariffs, withholding or conditioning federal funds, and his other economic and foreign policies?
Fiona Ma 50:40
Yeah, so tariffs, in the past have been really used to to correct imbalances in trade. This president uses tariffs to punish or reward his enemies or his friends, and that’s not the purpose for tariffs, right? The good thing is, pretty much everybody knows here in California, even if you don’t speak English as your first language, that tariffs mean taxes on the people. It means goods are going to be more expensive on all of us. And, you know, I don’t have to go and explain, you know, how tariffs work. I can speak to a college group, I can speak to seniors, I can speak to, you know, the business community, and they all understand that these tariffs mean taxes on us, so I have been participating in press conferences with some of my democratic treasures from around the state, talking about what the tariffs are going to, how the tariffs are going to impact our individual states. Whatever… we just did one on agriculture a couple weeks ago, we did one on just trade with Canada and Mexico, and how we have traditionally been kind of allies here in North America. They have been our friends. We have been right… trading and you know, not everybody can do everything and have everything right, and so we depend on, you know, our brothers and sisters, so to speak, and it’s been creating tensions with them, not only with Canada and Mexico, but with everyone around the world. And that’s not what the United States brand has been.
Fiona Ma 52:44
Our brand has been the stabilizer, the equalizer. We have been there for countries that need our help because of authoritative regimes, people, everything is tied to the dollar right around the world. I mean, that has been our brand, and this President, unfortunately, is tarnishing our brand. So we need to figure out how to get back, you know, to that message of United States, we’re the largest economy, we used to be the kind of the adults in the room, right where we can bring people together, we lead by example. All of those things used to be the brand for the United States, and we need to get back to that sooner than later, or our brand is going to be tarnished. It’s tarnished right now, but it’s not broken, and so hopefully our country will come together and figure out how we can repair those relationships around the world.
Joanne Tan 53:56
Yes, the Trump Administration is currently deporting legal as well as undocumented immigrants, including students attending Stanford and UC colleges. How would you protect them?
Fiona Ma 54:11
Well, here in California, you know our Governor Gavin Newsom has been a very strong and vocal governor, as well as our Attorney General, Rob Bonta, so they have been filing many, many lawsuits to protect many people and our funding sources. We also have city attorneys like David Chu in San Francisco, who’s filing his own lawsuits. So the cities and the counties and the special districts are also doing their part to try to protect people who are legally here, people who are coming to study. And I do believe that having international students being able to, you know, meet each other, work with each other, build those friendships, is going to create more peace in the world, and we should continue to do that. We should not discontinue, but we should continue to embrace those people to people relationships. So all I can say is, I’m sorry to those students, you know who… their dream was to come to the United States, and perhaps now they cannot come. But you know, please, keep us on your list. Okay, hopefully policies will change sooner than later, and we will welcome you back.
Joanne Tan 55:42
Thank you. Well, this issue is intimate to me, because I came here 43 years ago as an international student with a full scholarship at Brandeis University. What can be done to break the gridlock and partisanship in the federal government?
Fiona Ma 56:06
Um. Things have changed a lot in the federal government, right. When I started 30 years ago, Congress members, they used to get along better. There was civility. They traveled together, they dined together. They got to know each other’s family, and over the years, that has changed a lot. You know, there’s a lot of people who want to divide Congress, who want to divide the nation, and so, you know, their, their own separate body at the federal level, you know, and I know it’s not easy, and I think people are getting frustrated that there is this gridlock, that people are so bombastic that they’re not able to, you know, serve with civility, which is what politics used to be about.
Fiona Ma 57:05
Here in California, I’m happy to report that we don’t have that type of, you know, negativity, bombastic elected officials who want to divide the communities, it’s starting. I mean, we’ve got like, you know, sprinklings around, but I think in California, the people realize that, right? You see the people coming out for the rallies. Many communities are recalling elected officials that they think are not doing their job, not focused on the greater good.
Fiona Ma 57:44
So it really does depend on the people and the strength of the people to hold elected officials accountable, but also to register to vote and to vote for those elected officials you believe are going to best represent you and our community. And I’m very happy to say that after during COVID, the Asian community in San Francisco, for example, has really stepped up and has has increased their political presence and their power at the voting, at the voting booths, that has never really happened before. You know, I ran in 2002 and trying to get, you know, some of, you know, my Asian, you know, colleagues, even my family, sometimes to vote, they would be like, Well, I’m sorry, I was busy. I had to, you know, feed the kids. I had to get up for work early. I was tired. I mean, there’s no excuse. Voting is a right and a privilege, and we should not let other people take that right away from us, even if you don’t feel like you can make a difference, your vote does make a difference. People are watching how we vote, how you’re voting, and so don’t, please. We need to register more people, and we need to continue to be consistent voters at the ballot box.
Joanne Tan 59:22
Yes, I’m proud to say that for the past three decades, I have never missed a single vote on any issue since I became the US citizen three decades ago, more than three decades. And also I went to law school, and I know, … because my undergraduate major was political science. I do care. This is my right. This is my citizenship right. This is the privilege.
Fiona Ma 59:47
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Joanne Tan 59:49
So last part, Part Four: Personal stories. I noticed on your business card, Fiona Ma, CPA, with CPA as large as your name. Then the Chinese character “Ma, Shi Yun” underneath, which I love. But in a much smaller size, almost hard to read, “California State Treasurer”. As a branding expert, I was wondering, why do you emphasize the CPA title so much more than the treasurer’s designation?
Fiona Ma 1:00:20
Well, I mean, my card has a gold seal on it, so you can tell that it is official. But, you know, I’m very proud of my name, and I’m proud to be a CPA. I’ve been certified in California since 1992 and even though I don’t do CPA work, I do a little bit of pro bono work for people who can’t afford, maybe they got behind on their taxes, or they’re starting a non profit, or they have a non profit. So I still do some of that, but I still do my 80 hours of continuing professional education every two years, just to keep those letters, because once you are retired, or you don’t do your continuing education, very, very hard to get those three letters “CPA” back, you know, on a business card, or your, you know, being able to use it. So been very proud of that. And then my Chinese name. Many of my strong supporters, you know, are Chinese, even Japanese and Korean. They can read my Chinese name as well. So I’m proud to be an Asian American, proud to be a CPA, proud of my name, and so I guess that’s why they’re bigger on my business card.
Joanne Tan 1:01:42
Yeah, what made you want to become an accountant before you became a politician?
Fiona Ma 1:01:49
Well, really, my dad. My dad wanted us to be one of the lead professions, a lawyer, engineer, account or a doctor. So I was good at math. My dad trained me to be an accountant. My brother became an engineer, and then my sister is a chiropractor, so she’s a doctor, so we are only missing a lawyer. But Joanne, these days, I tell parents, they should encourage their kids to be a lawyer, because if you do not know the law, and there’s so many litigious lawsuits these days that we are going to be behind the eight ball as Asian Americans if we don’t understand our rights, especially our legal rights. So I know the parents want their kids to be doctors, probably first, but I am encouraging them to please think about the law, because that is what, right, is kind of the basis of our country.
Fiona Ma 1:02:48
So that’s how I became an accountant. But after I graduated, started my first job with one of the big eight accounting firms. I am not an office person. I do not like to sit behind a computer, you know, hitting these deadlines every 15th of the month, working six, seven days a week. That just is not my personality. I really wanted to go out, you know, I like to do business development, customer relations, customer service, and so that started my after five years, I said, you know, I I’m just not cut out for this. I also didn’t see any opportunities, because there were no women or minorities as partners of that firm.
Fiona Ma 1:03:33
And so I quit and started my own practice, which I really loved, because I could, you know, deal directly with customers. I had a little more control of my schedule, I can help those that I wanted to help. And then became president of the Asian Business Association, and that was the first time that I was, you know, that my eyes opened to what politicians actually do.
Fiona Ma 1:03:59
Right, politicians control the budget and the money. They control the laws that are passed. They can make appointments of people to be in control of certain government agencies. And there is a lot of power. And if you are not electing the right people, they will not be using the power for the good of the people, and so I started to look at my elected officials thinking that I could do a better job. And so that’s kind of what propelled me to run for office. And clearly now it is my calling and my, my passion to continue to serve, to represent, and to try to help as many people as I can.
Joanne Tan 1:04:49
How do you like the combination of a CPA with a political career?
Fiona Ma 1:04:54
I think it’s very useful to understand numbers, to not be intimidated, to be able to, you know, decipher balance sheets and other documents, because numbers don’t lie, right? People can put whatever they want on a piece of paper. They can say what they want, but when you put numbers, you know, in a budget, they have to balance and so numbers don’t lie. So being able to go directly and seeing for myself what it is, is going on is, I think, very, very helpful. So I always encourage everyone, especially now financial literacy.
Fiona Ma 1:05:36
We do not offer financial literacy in our schools. We’re going to start doing it because we passed a law last year that will allow economics or business teachers to be able to teach financial literacy. But we need to go back to the basics, right, saving money, not going into high debt, right? Because you will never get out of debt with more debt. And these days, we don’t have bank accounts. We don’t have piggy banks. We, you know, everything is like, click, click, click, you know, on, on this, you know, but you have to pay it back, and you have to understand, you know, that any more money you borrow, it’s going to cost more because of the interest rates. And interest rates are different, and how are you going to protect your credit rating, later on if you want to buy a car or a house, you know if you’ve already destroyed your credit when you’re a young person, so I go around and kind of give these lessons. I was at the junior achievement at one of our local high schools yesterday talking about this very topic that you need to understand your finances, and don’t let anyone control your finances. If someone says, Don’t worry about it, I’ll take care of your money. You just give me your, your salary, and I’ll pay the bills – you need to make sure that you are on all of the documents, that you control your money, and that you are in control financially. So that’s kind of what’s helped me in life.
Joanne Tan 1:07:18
So what do you find most satisfying as a politician, and the least satisfying or even distressing?
Fiona Ma 1:07:27
I think, in this job, the ability to help people directly. Many people have my cell phone. They have the number for many of my people here, and being able to reach someone live, someone that returns your email or your text message when people, you know, are stressed out, I think, is important. So being able to help people, being able to level the playing field, if I think someone is, you know, being wronged, they’re not getting access to resources, like what happened during COVID. Our community and many of our non English speaking communities did not have access to any of the grants or the loan programs that came out during COVID Because nobody reached out to them. It was in English. They didn’t know who to go to. We’re not very good at broadcasting, you know, all the new programs. We just put it on the website and expect people to come and know that it’s going to be up there. And then being able to, to make dreams come true, that is probably my most satisfying. When someone says, Oh, my God, my dream is to do this. And if I could help them, I really get a lot of satisfaction, you know, making people’s dreams come true.
Joanne Tan 1:08:54
What about least satisfying or even distressing?
Fiona Ma 1:08:57
Um, I don’t like to go to funerals because, you know, I cry and I miss people, and so I don’t like to speak at funerals. I now am the CEO of a 500 person operation, and there is a lot of HR issues that goes along with, you know, being the CEO. So that has been difficult learning experience, because before I had two staff, then I had 12 staff, and then I had, you know, maybe 14 staff members, and now I have 500 that I am directly responsible for. So that is definitely not easy.
Fiona Ma 1:09:42
And when we go through deficits, this is my third deficit position I’ve been in, and it’s always very heartbreaking when people all of a sudden we’re cutting certain services, programs like students, right, not being able to come to school or continuing their education or, you know, that is really heartbreaking. So I think deficits are the hardest you know, part as an elected official.
Joanne Tan 1:10:18
As a woman and a minority, you have inspired others to serve the public by pursuing a career as an elected official. Do you have any cautionary advice drawn from your experience and lessons learned? What are the things to look out for?
Fiona Ma 1:10:37
Thank God we have a lot more training and leadership academies and programs, because I didn’t have that. You know, 30 years ago, I pretty much had to learn from my boss, Senator John Burton, got involved in a lot of different organizations, but no one really kind of taught me and gave me the lessons learned about what to prepare for. And so was really, you know, trial by fire. So I would say, you know, try to join as many of these programs as you can, to listen to professionals, other elected officials in terms of, you know, what it’s really like to run for office and to serve in office.
Fiona Ma 1:11:23
Number two, it has to be the right time for you and your family, and that’s always a consideration, because once you’re in elected office, you’re going to be pulled in many different directions, and now you’re on a different track. It’s like being part of a corporation where now you’re kind of on the track to leadership. You are going to feel that pull, in your priorities, those sacrifices, and if your family life is not stable, then it’s going to be more stressful for that person.
Fiona Ma 1:12:01
I would also say, get involved. Go try to serve on a local board or a commission. Even governor, this governor, the last governor, committed to having 50% of their appointees as women. So lots of opportunities, and that’s the best way to learn about Robert’s Rules of Order, and the Sunshine Act, and dealing with the public, and you know the press and the media, and you know, voting, and all that. So definitely do that.
Fiona Ma 1:12:31
I would also volunteer on a campaign and volunteer on different levels of campaigns, because every one is different, every candidate is different, and the more campaigns that you volunteer on, the more you will see which ones are good candidates, well run campaigns and are going to win, you know, their election. So I think just the more experience and exposure you have to, you know, politics and elected, and then find a mentor. I mentor a lot of women and minorities who want to run for office, and it’s great. There’s so many new faces. You know, engineers, you know, nuclear physicists, doctors who are now, you know, wanting to run for office. So the profession is changing in the legislature.
Fiona Ma 1:13:25
California Legislature, now we are almost at 50% women. Never before. You know, the first three women got elected in, I think, like 1918, right. And I was the number 134th woman elected to the legislature, and this was in 2006. 136 since 1849 – not a lot, but now we’re almost 50% and so, you know, it takes time. It takes, you know, mentorships, it takes community, and it takes more people again, registering and voting, and I do believe when minorities and Asians and women do run, it takes a lot longer for us to make that decision. But the voters know that we are going to be committed, that we want to work hard, we want to represent, and we want to do the best job that we can.
Joanne Tan 1:14:25
If someday you run for California governor and win, what kind of people will you surround yourself with in that position? What are the top priorities you want to achieve as governor? What changes do you want to leave behind as your legacy?
Fiona Ma 1:14:42
I’m not going to talk about the future, because I don’t know what that holds for me, but I do surround myself, I like to surround myself with the best and the brightest people who are self starters, who think outside the box, who are willing to work hard and who love people. They must love people to be in this job. All of my offices, I try to make it look like the United Nations, because I think we are stronger when we have diversity of opinions and backgrounds and values, and we’re sharing and working together and creating those long, lasting bonds and relationships. So I would say, you know, I like to put together the best team that I can. I am not a micromanager. Obviously, if something’s not working, I’m going to have to step in and do that job, which I will, but just hiring the best and the brightest.
Fiona Ma 1:15:48
Number two, when it comes to government, government, my appointees at this office have had some sort of private sector experience, because as as a private sector member, as a CPA, I understand that time is money. So when you are trying to develop a property, you have a loan. You have to pay interest on that loan, and every day that a piece of paper is sitting on someone’s desk, you know while you’re waiting, or you’re waiting for that phone call you’re waiting for that letter is costing you money, and it’s costing frustration in the people. So government needs to work with, and better, and more efficiently with people. There’s no reason that a piece of paper should sit on my desk for a week if I can get it done in 10 minutes, right? But that’s not the attitude, and we need to kind of change that. And I believe government needs to adapt and adjust and pivot, especially now.
Fiona Ma 1:16:59
I would also say, you know, listening to the people. I spend a lot of time, if you follow me on social media, I am everywhere in the state. I try to meet with different you know, business owners, industries, associations, nonprofits. I like to learn about different causes. I think learning and educating myself is important, but listening to the people really incorporating what they want, what they need, I think is missing. Because when people get into office, they get advice, they think, okay, maybe that’s a good idea, but they haven’t really socialized it, they haven’t heard from the majority of the people. And so these days, in California, the people are really voting on these statewide initiatives, and they’re surprising a lot of elected officials the way the people are voting, because the people are now understanding that what they vote on is going to impact their life, and so they better understand and vote, not let other people decide, because it’s too complicated. But they are educating themselves. They are talking amongst themselves, and they are voting based on their pocketbook, based on their moods. And so I would just say, continue doing that. And that’s kind of my strength is actually showing up and listening. I always say, if you invite me, I will come. And hopefully you keep inviting me.
Joanne Tan 1:18:40
Your grandparents were members of the Bai minority in China. Could you speak or understand Bai language? Other than English, what other languages do you speak?
Fiona Ma 1:18:53
No, I don’t speak Bai and you know, my parents left China as kids back then, they never thought that they would go back to China. So growing up, they really wanted us to speak English and to assimilate. And so, you know, my generation of folks from China or Taiwan, they… Hong Kong, they don’t speak a lot of Chinese because of our parents. Now, everything has reversed. Everybody is, is taking, you know, Mandarin in school. You know, our Mandarin immersion programs are, you know, oversubscribed. Everybody is speaking better Mandarin than I am. I speak more Cantonese, which is, you know, very kind of local to San Francisco, or, you know, LA’s, the Chinatowns, with the people that came to California first. So unfortunately, you know, I, I can understand what people are talking about me, and I am getting better at understanding, but, um, in terms of speaking, I am not fluent. I wish I could go and live someplace for a year. I probably could become, you know, better at speaking Mandarin.
Joanne Tan 1:20:15
Okay, as a daughter of immigrants, what story would you like to share here about your upbringing?
Fiona Ma 1:20:26
I would say, you know, I brought up, like many of us, you know, seeking the American dream. You know, my parents wanted to come here for a better life for themselves, for us, and again, hard work is essential. Being on time or early has been, you know, kind of drilled into my head. Having integrity and honesty is also important, like your word is your bond, and I still kind of believe in it, if you say you’re going to do something, I, I want to trust that you’re going to do something. Playing sports. I grew up playing four sports in junior high and high school. I think being understanding how to be a good team player, how to compete, how to, you know, win with grace and lose with dignity, I think are all very, very good traits. I also volunteered a lot in different organizations, like Girl Scouts. I was a top cookie seller. I think if you want to get into politics, you should train your boys or girls to be able to go door to door and sell something, because eventually we have to go door to door and sell ourselves. So I would just say I’ve had a lot of great opportunities. My dad was always pushing us to do more, try more, and they were always positive, even if we weren’t good at something I didn’t know I wasn’t good at something, they made me feel like I was good at something. And so having that confidence growing up really continues to this day, where I’m always open to trying whatever it is and whatever it is I try, you know, I know my dad’s gonna say “doing a great job”, even if I’m not. But you know, having that confidence, I think, is important when children are growing up, that parents really support them and not, you know, put them down or be negative and always, you know, deter them. You know, it always should be like, go for it, go for it. That’s the best thing I think, parents could do for their their kids.
Joanne Tan 1:22:54
Do you have children? What value…
Fiona Ma 1:22:57
I do not have children, but we have three adopted dogs. We love dogs. I do live with my father. My mom passed away seven years ago, but we have been living together for many years. So I live with my father, and then my husband is a firefighter, and so, you know, he comes and goes whenever he is off of work. So it kind of… It’s a busy household. When I’m home.
Joanne Tan 1:23:27
what values would you pass on to the new generations of Americans?
Fiona Ma 1:23:32
The new generation – You need to believe and work hard. There is no substitute to hard work. That’s where I think we’re lacking a little bit, is that many young people feel like they’re entitled, that they should get that top job, get paid more, get promoted more, and it will come, but with hard work. Number two, treat each other with dignity and respect the way you would like to be treated, right? You Should Be nice to everyone, because I always say the people you see going up are the same people you will see coming down. So, you know, just be humble, and then you know, know what your values are and your principles and stick with them. It is not easy sometimes to be the only one standing up. You’re the only one standing up for an individual, for an idea, for a bill, for each other, whatever it is, but you know you need to really understand, you know, who you are, and stick with it, and then surround yourself with good people, good positive people, people who are not putting you down, who are, you know, sucking up your time. And then, save money. Learn financial literacy. Save money. Get control of your finances. The more you’re comfortable with, you know, money and budgets and savings and investments, the better off you will be in your lifetime.
Joanne Tan 1:25:19
Last question: as a brand builder, I ask all my honored guests on the Interviews of Notables and Influencers this question: What does your brand, in your case, the “Fiona Brand”, stand for?
Fiona Ma 1:25:34
I think the Fiona Brand is someone who is accessible, who listens, who is proven, principled, and a problem problem solver. Those are my brand. And I’m always willing to learn. Like I said, please invite me. I will come. The more I learn and understand about what is working well and what’s not working well makes me a better elected official, someone who can better help you, and our community, and our state.
Joanne Tan 1:26:15
Thank you so much. It’s a great honor to have you, and I feel like I have personally known you so much better because you…
Fiona Ma 1:26:25
Thank you Joanne,
Joanne Tan 1:26:26
yes, and I wish you the best, the very best with your campaign and with your future.
Fiona Ma 1:26:32
Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for doing this.
Joanne Tan 1:26:35
Thank you
Fiona Ma 1:26:35
Than you for what you’re doing.
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